Would someone please post a comprehensive list of products sold in America that you know are French products? Of course, I know about French wine, but I know there are lots more things imported from France that aren’t as clearly labelled. Thank you.
146 Responses to French products
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Christopher:
We ARE as a Government treating the French and the German’s with respect for their opinion…however, they have started whining…and that is very unbecoming…whining because they are being cut out of some big business ventures in Iraq because those contracts are reserved for the Coalition…They whined about going into Iraq because they did not want to lose their lucritative contracts…THAT is the reason they did not want us there…and now that we are there…they are whining because now they want a piece of the action…Why DO YOU THINK that Chirac and Schroader are BOTH, hand in hand, going to the 60 Anniv. of Normandy this year? To smooth ruffled feathers…so they can get some of the frosting on the cake…
I don’t know why everyone just can’t be HONEST about these political infightings…it is so clear what is happening, even someone with a 70 IQ could figure out what the French and the German’s are up to…Putnim…yes, he voted No also…but he is not NOW graveling…this graveling that the French and German’s are doing now to get back in good graces (ONLY FOR THE CONTRACTS)…is very unbecoming to the French…who are supposedly so pomp, staid and aristocratical, and the German’s…my, my, my…and to think they will be at Normandy, hand in hand…honoring 11 thousand young men who would not be laid to rest there if it had not been them to start with… Germany being greedy and wanting to own Europe and then for France’s inability to defend itself… sooooooooooooo, I really wonder if it is even fitting for either one of them to be present…The last WWI veteran died the other day at the age of 108…I wonder what the WWII veteran’s think about all this…perhaps there are some out there who care to comment…I understand we are losing them at a very high rate each day…
ikorrellim: your arguments might be more pursuasive if it were not for the fact that these continue to be same continuous, unabaiting, right wing drivel that we hear all the time. Try to get some balance or objectivity. Donerail
donerail:
Well, I’m back…I couldn’t stay away…I enjoy reading other’s comments…some more than others…as far as getting balance…I know I sound more like I’m in the "Bush" camp everyday…I did not vote for Bush…I was angry the way things turned out…BUT, compare how you think Gore would have acted after 911 and how Bush acted and it can only make one proud of the "boy"…I was surprised when I turned on CNN and heard that we had entered Iraq…However, cowboys, once taken a stand, don’t back off…Saddam and his sons were given 48 hours to get out of Iraq…they could have gone and been living high on the hog elsewhere for the rest of their lives…He could have helped his buddy Osama (although i have read they they are not buddies…but, under the circumstances, Osama and Hussien both being asked to leave their native lands could have caused a strong friendship to develop)…soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, perhaps it is a good thing that Hussien thought we were bluffing and that world opinion would not let us enter Iraq…Well, WORLD, we did…and now we have to live with it and make the best of this situation…coming out on a positive note not only for the Iraqi’s but the coilition…
But, I am rambling again…bottom line is…I have surveyed Americans from just barely old enough to vote to almost too old to get to the polls…and they all say without hesitation…THEY ARE VOTING FOR BUSH…and why, do you ask, would they vote for this man who has gotten us into so much debt, spread our troops thin, caused economical problems here in the USA…because he’s got "balls"…and America, since the beginning of it’s time, love the guys with the "balls"…I do believe that I would have been embarrassed if Gore were in office now…and most of America…he is too timid…for this job…especially now…
Apparently most American’s agree with Bush, or agree enough with him to vote for him again…bottom line…he doesn’t let the World push America around…which us primitive, pioneers of this fairly new land DO NOT APPRECIATE…
On another note, to those who insist that they are offended by the remarks that France would be speaking German now if now for the Allies…I am afraid if they believe this is not true, then their history books are lying to them…I am sure it is sour grapes policy…I certainly would not want to think that if now for France that I would be speaking Arabic…
ikorrellim, you have an Englishman, a Frenchman and a Pole all bemused by your ramblings . . . and I have just caught on: you’re really a stand up comic act looking for an audience. Well done! :
Christopher O:
Well, Your Pole, French and Englishman can be amused as you want…and it is a FACT…that if America had not been pursuaded by Churchill to enter the war…the Poles, French and Englishman would be speaking German right now…You cannot argue with history…
And yes, mark my words, Bush will be elected by at least a 60 percent vote…you can like it or not…but, it is not for you to say, one way or the other…you are not American and will NEVER understand…
Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, with that said, go back to whatever it is that you do not so well…otherwise, you’d never have gotten yourselves into the position that you did a mere 60 years ago…in history…that is not much…
Sorry, but what are you treing to tell us? Noone here is trying to say that USA didn’t save our asses during WW2. They did. So what? You expect Europe to do what the great America tells us? Your ancestors helped us, yes. We speak our languages and have our own countries, yes. And haveing our own countries means also that we can have our own politic, not nececcerly same as USA. Are you trying to tell us that we are "ungrateful" because we don’t agree with you? It is silly, realy.
And like you said, it was 60 years ago. Think about it.
And one more thing, we know what we did wrong that caused the sistuation that happened 60 years ago. Western Europe did a lot to prevent such catastroffies in future. Now, we are joining them. Don’t be affraid, we learned and USA won’t need to help us anymore.
Gotcha:
I am glad that Western Europe learned their lessons from 60 years ago…and listened to the Allies…and hopefully they won’t need us anymore to get them out of situations that they created for themselves…Your statement, the Great America sends out a message between the lines to me…No, we don’t want to have to tell you what to do…If you have leaned your lessons so well, why does America have agreement with Western Europe "Old Europe" to come to their aid in case of aggression…Does this mean that you have leaned your lessons and will not make the same mistakes again…or does it mean, that if we continue to make mistakes that "Great America" is obligated to bail us out? You can’t have it both ways…Either you’re soveign or you’re not…The GLORY that was Old Europe is gone…and the EU is trying to bring the whole of Europe together so that they can be a "superpower"…What is so interesting about it is that France and Germany still think they are the KING MONKEY’S of Europe and they are very much of the notion that they should have the controlling power…now isn’t that interesting…sooooooooooooooooo, France and Germany…keep on trying…perhaps you will make it yet…in your quest for glory and prestige…but don’t count on it…"Young Europe" is a little fiester than you thought they were going to be…Apparently, they do not look at Old Europe as they used to…I am sure that "Young Europe" knows much more than I do about the situation…but I applaud their efforts to keep France and Germany from being the dominate membership…perhaps "Young Europe" took some tips from "Great America" and grew some balls…
Well done – just to check, is the point at which I laugh or have you still not yet got to the punch line?
You see we are a bit slow on the European continent and don’t always understand the American humour!!
Yes, we realize you are a bit slow…keep thinking about it for a week or two…and the punch line will come to you…it is hidden in the message…then you can have a good laugh on yourself…
Many of us "Americans" do speak French when we go to France . . . or at least try as well as we can. Many of us are not focused on getting rich. Many of us drive small fuel efficient automobiles.
The point I’m trying to make is that you really can’t put an entire country full of people into "pat" categories. Americans are as individual as Frenchmen as Englishmen as Italians as Iraqis as Egyptians, etc. People are all different. There are good and bad people in every country. There are good and bad people in every government. It doesn’t do anyone any good to portray the entire population of any particular country as inherently good or bad, nor is it reasonable to say the entire world "hates" Americans. Certainly, there are people who hate us, and many of them justifiably. However, there are many more who either don’t care or who "like" us.
It certainly isn’t fair to place the blame of government actions on any particular people. In all honesty and despite our loud noises about being democratic (we’re really a republic), Bush did not receive a full majority of the votes in the last election so why blame everyone in America for his policies. Yes, we have problems. So do other countries. The point isn’t to stand around pointing fingers and placing blame (or winning e-arguments). The point is to find out what is wrong with the various governments and in a polite peaceful way start to involve yourself politically and fix the problems.
This would start by being polite to each other and as understanding as possible.
I decided to leave this topic alone after the neat response from donerail.
It seems to me that the majority of people from America, Australia, France, My country (England) and the rest of Europe and the world are reasonable and keen to fins accord.
We get led or pushed around, if we allow it, by the bully boys – the dominant minority, the extremists. I would just like to further support the voice of good reason here.
As a Francophile who will enjoy his 60th birthday in New Orleans, and buy a home in France next year, I believe that we should find ways to share and live together. As an alternative forum I have started a new web site for Brits who love France and the French who would like to share more with les Britanniques.
This is not a commercial site like this one; it is a free sharing community where everyone is welcome to make contributions and get involved. It’s early days as there is still much to get set up but I would welcome any ideas and advice – even offers of help and contacts in France – especially local community web sites that would like to exchange links.
You can see where I have got to so far at http://www.francophile.info/index.htm
ChristopherO: Good luck with that site. It should be a success. (I envy your retirement plans, by the way.) SalB: You are so gracious, kind, and thoughtful. Having said that, I feel compelled to say that politics is so very important in this world. It is what drives and runs governments. As you so have eloquently stated, we should all be civil with one another. The world would be so better off if everyone did as you suggest. The trouble is, it just doesn’t happen. Through vigorous debate, we can find where people are coming from and plan accordingly. In this thread, to me at least, it seems to me that Americans have to become better educated. When that happens, no politican would dare risk American soldiers’ lives without getting the consensus its populace and of other civilized nations. I believe we are justified in hunting down those 9/11 savages whereever they are. I don’t believe we are justified in inflicting our military might on nations that we just don’t like. Somehow, I think we’ve failed. Bush has us bogged down in Iraq and most Americans supported the effort. We have to figure out how to do better. Until we do, the criticism we receive – in my view – is justified. Donerail
donerail,SalB and ChristopherO:
thank you for the voice of reason and respect here. You people make sense. Unfortunately, people like ikorrellim cannot hear any other opinion than the broken record playing in their head. All histories have 2 sides and stories. However, it is the winner who can publish their version of the "truth." ikorrellim should speak to my French family in Strasbourg region and to my father (he knew french resistance) to get a sense of what went on that is NOT in American history books.
Glad to hear you have a home in France
what a wonderful place to retire and live! 
Long live French wine, cheese, bread, CROISSANTS!! and choucroute
))
LaVielleBranch: Well said. Donerail
I totally agree with what Christophero’s comments. I am from Hong Kong and just learnt all these from the news. Everybody has his rights for their own choice. If French govt disagree on the war, let them disagree. Why do the boycott? Is this human rights? Why boycott on anyone who disagree the war? Is that what you guys mean liberal?
I highly respect those American’s behaviour on the 911 case and I hope that you’ll keep this.
and perhaps you should speak to my Father and my uncles to get a "sense of what went on" over there when they came to your rescue…and what they had to endure to liberate your relatives in WWII in Germany and France…It seems that European’s espcially the French and the German’s want and want everyone else to forget about WWII and WWI…I wonder why? I don’t wonder why? I know why and so do you, the peoples of France and Germany know why you want to forget…think about it…perhaps you would see the real reason if you think it out in English instead of French…or German…
Oh dear ikorrellim still harping on that old worn record?
Don’t you know that it is sounding like a load of drivel.
The rest of the world no longer needs to dwell on old world wars but find new ways to live and work together . . . I am starting to feel so very sorry for you.
ikorrellim: I see you are making more friends. It must be your charisma. Donerail
donerail: hahahahahahah
) nice posting to ikorrellim hahahahah
my cousins in Bischwiller (alsace region of france) survived ww2 and have nice photos of american solders barging into their home and serving themselves to forced "hospitality." apparently these americans were so stupid that they LET my cousins photo them in their house in their uniforms with serial numbers, etc. on the outside of ther uniforms…i have personally seen the photos and am now attempting to get copies sent to me from france..to find out who these "wonderful" soldiers were who forced themself onto my family and into their home…
Donerail – perhaps it is all history?
European countries are steeped in it and our cultures and behaviours are embedded from centuries of experience. And that may also be part of the reason we can manage our cross border relationships even after holocausts.
America benefitted considerably from the determination and commitment of immigrants and has grown strong in a relatively short period through sheer hard work.
Sadly this thrust to be big and strong also means dominance which many Europeans find daunting and overwhelming. Despite this we are all welcoming to Americans when they visit our countries who we usually find to be warm friendly people.
I would suggest going back to my earlier point about listening more; I am sure this would be valuable and enhance even further our good relationships.
America is not a manufacturer anymore, we have a service economy. In
order to provide the BEST service you need the best products, no matter where they come from. For business and pleasure, americans just want the best. From washers and dryers to farm implements most
of us want the better European designs. Some would argue that then forigners then get all the money, but all they usually do with it is invest it back in USA.
Yes food is better in France, but it is far to specialized for me, I
prefer the variety available here. Try to find a Mexican restaurant
in France. In the market try and find a good bottle of California wine
hell when I have been in southern France i can’t even find a bottle
of Alsatian wine!
As far as history goes, Europeans must realize that we are you. America is what happens when your oppressed people are suddenly
released in a world rich in resources.
Also, you forgot the most important thing we have that the French
lack, a sense of HUMOR!
maxpower: That is an excellent post. "America is what happens when oppressed people find a land of opportunity" – I have been grasping for something like that. Also, we do have a great sense of humor. I might just stay here after all. Thanks. Donerail
maxpower: you want a MEXICAN restaurant in paris? then you didn’t look very hard. http://www.pagesjaunes.fr could find it for you easily. There is a mexican AND tex-mex joint at place de la contrescarpe, and a few other ones throughout the student quartier.
try going to Monoprix or Nicolas for wine in france. and YES, you CAN find alsacian wine in those locations in provence..but you probably didn’t try looking..you just complained instead.
and yes, the french DO have a sense of humor. they have to, to put up with the likes of you when you go to france.
I never bought the whole freedom fries bullcrap. I bought French wine just to piss my fellow Americans off because I supported French opposition to our illegal war in Iraq.
Wow!
This is a really difficult question. First, how do you define "French": made in France, owned by a majority of French interests? If an American product is made in the US and distributed by a French company is it a French product? What about the opposite?
Second, I don’t think anyone could give you a comprehensive list, just because French products in the US encompass just about every type of product sold in the US, from cars to TV sets to food, computer and every type of low tech to very high tech products.
I’m afraid that if you want a good answer you’re going to have to rephrase the question.
G
Gaston is correct. You need to define what you mean by "French products". And even then, it would be difficult to totally boycott the French.
For example, in my area the water and sewer company is owned by a majority French holding company. Now, how exactly do you boycott that?!
Hi there, I live in California and am a licensed Driving Instructor. I also teach classes on the weekends and on certain days I play a game with the kids that I teach. I was just wondering how many car munfacturers there are in france… I know of two, Peugeot and Renault. can you help me? thank you
Wow, that is some history to digest. Donerail
Tammy-
Why are you asking others to do research for you? I see that you have thoroughly looked into this matter by your statement of:
"Of course I know about French wine"
All you have to do is search for ‘french exports products’ and you will have a list. Or better yet, search your telephone yellow pages for a french grocery store, and write it down yourself.
Why don’t YOU post a comprehensive list, and let others add to it.
RTFM Tammy, this is 2004, I hope santa gave you a clue for Christmas.
- udon_master / chicago, il
You forgot Citroen !
To the Americans: are you serious about the "Freedom Fries"? What is freedom to you? To bomb innocent people and drin Californian wine?
Regards
Central European
I am so saddened when I listen to American closed minds.
My understanding of a free society is the free will of everyone in their thoughts and acions so long as this does not harm others.
As an Englishman backing my government I still fully support the right of the French and Germans to oppose the US and UK in military action.
Come on you guys, do you alway throw your rattle out of your pram when others disagree with you??
And boycotts serve no purpose – I can understand why the French find Americans a little starnge. Why not put your energy into winning arguments rather that throwing tantrums?
And, for the record, I am no more anti USA than I am pro France – I will have a wonderful holiday in New York and New Orleans this year when I hope to meet some very wonderful people.
Don’t boycott French products – enjoy them. Only you will be the losers.
zsolt73:
I see from your note that you’re from Central Europe. The last 5 or 10 years haven’t exactly been a testimony of a civilized society. Ethnic Cleansing, for example, is something that we in the USA have much trouble comprehending. Perhaps you could enlighten us some. In America, we do have an amazing degree of freedom. Regards, Donerail
American’s have a bond with their countrymen like no other country…perhaps it is because "we try harder"…this wonderful country was built on just that "freedom"…freedom to express one’s self…freedom of religion…freesoms too numerous to mention…American’s have a great sense of humor…and Freedom Fries is appropriate for the occasion, also Freedom Toast on Air Force One…and anything else that has French in it…it is appropriate now to change it to Freedom…I had thought of submitting a change to the Banana…and calling it Frenana…for the French…yellow through and through and spineless…but then again…I do get carried away…I see the illustrious French have invited the illustrious German Chancellor to visit Normandy on it’s anniversary…My, we are getting "chummy" now aren’t we…I wonder why? Anyone care to elaborate?
Well yes, ikorrellim –
We in the UK and, no doubt, the French and others in Europe, also enjoy freedom just as you do in the USA. Just see how much protest there was on the streets of England when your president visited recently.
Englishmen have no problem with the German Chancellor being invited to Normandy – what a good idea, we need to lose past prejudices.
There is often found to be a healthy cynicism in Europeen countries about Americans – you seem to have an opinion that the US is the greatest and best.
Of course we know that Britain is best because you need to use our language and that French is best because the have the best cuisine and wine.
And before you get over excited about my response I will take the tongue out of my cheek.
and please don’t forget WHY you enjoy the freedoms that you have now…How soon we forget?
Sorry?
Hey Tammy,
Here is a list that can help you:
- Louis Vuitton
- Gucci
- Tag Heuer
- Channel
- Yves Saint Laurent
- Sarah B
- Champagne (evry kind of hampagne, because that s an all french product!!)
- Cognac (evry kind of Cognac because that s an all french product!!)
- Airbus
- … hope you are not too desappointed! No product to oycott because you can t afford them !! + No more champagne and no more Cognac!! Because they are french only products!! Too bad for you!
And keep in mind that:
80% of french business is made in Europe, so there ie 20 % left for the rest of the world; so not that much in the USA. + most of our companies are world companies, that means many american companies have interest in those french companies. French companies have also interests in american companies asweel…this means we you are buying "american products" you probably give kinndly some money to french!! LOL (i am french by the way!)
Want an exemple? take Nissan, or Lexus, or what ever Nissan brands in the us (i know nissan is not american, that s an exemple…) it s owned by 44% by Renault, french car maker and best seller brand in europe!!
Damned you did not expect that!!!
Kinddly, Dr Ness
Hey ikorelim
WHY DID YOU WAIT 1941 (start of war 1939) to join WWII?? Because you were making money on our back !! Never forget that!!!
No lesson from a country where apartheid was allowed just 40 years ago !
We were isolationist…even after WWI…but, we had to come into war…as you recall…Pearl Harbor…anyway, Europe was crying for our help…soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, as good neighbors…we went in and did your jobs for you…
Hey ikorrellim & Dr Ness, let’s not get WW3 going!!
This thread seems to be about boycotting the French over their reluctance regarding Iraq …. and ikorrellim then went on about freedom. Introducing the German visit to Normandy was a little incomprehensible.
Only fools relive the past to justify the present otherwise I would have introduced Vietnam, Watergate, et al.
And Donerail, you may be misled in how much freedom you have. Try the UK – you may be amazed at the openness of our own society – but you would have to live here for a while to appreciate it. I would say that the French also have a lot of freedom also. This is not just an American thing.
And it is very unkind to talk to Central Europeans about ethnic cleansing – the person you responded may have been a victim for all you know. But, then that is past just as is the Klu Klux Klan!
More importantly freedom recognises everyone’s right to their own opinion and our ability not to get over emotional when they chose a different action to our own.
Freedom lives in the mind – not what anyone thinks they give to someone else.
Offer me a cogent pursuasive argument ikorrellim – I continue to listen.
Fools do not relive the past to justify the present…Fools pay no attention to the past…thereby not learning from it, and then they continue to make the same mistakes over and over again…
Those who relive the past do so to learn from past mistakes in an effort to ensure that past negativity will not visit the present and future. Fools go around making statements such as, "It’s the 21st Century"…to justify what is going on in their little narrow minded, tunnel vision worlds…They do not revisit the past…to them, their is no past, past is the year they were born until the present day…That is why there are so many mis-informed, blind leading the blind demonstrators all over the world now…
If the shoe fits, wear it…
Damn!!!!!! What’s wrong with you guys? WWII????? Are you 80 or sth? I can understand 80 year’s old people giveing WWII as an ezample but you? World changed from that times so for Christ sake stop it. And , mind you it is Pole who tells you that , someone from the country that suffered the most from this war.
About Normandy and German, I’m happy about it. Maybe such things means that we are getting all a bit closer? Reclared not to ever fight with eachother? Will you ever understand it?
I was agaist the war and wrote the reasons for it somewhere there so I won’t do it again. I was pissed when our government decided to join the coalition. I took part in manifestation here in Warsaw but they didn’t listen to us.
About learning from history, don’t you think that maybe the reason why France and Germany were against means that they took the lesson? Maybe they realised that there is allways another way?
I support France here, eventhought I don’t like Chirac. I just think that Bush and Blair ( with a little help from our guys) are doing much worse job than him.
Regards from Poland
Gotcha:
and you are probably one of the "ones" I referred to…that do not revisit the past…or learn from history…history started for you the day you were born and continued from there…France buried it’s head in the sand and got run over by the German’s…just as you did…you were invaded…but, from what I read in history…you did fight back…if you are angry with your leaders for joining the coalition…then you are wrong…who is going to defend you if terrorist start overruning your country and making themselves at home as they did in Afganistan? Guess who? certainly not the FrencH, or the German’s…WMD’s have not been found…but how much do you know about politics? probably not much…Since the fall of Saddam…Libya has come around, Syria is giving serious second thoughts to their actions and so is Iran…also, North Korea…
Because you care not to learn from the past…let me give you a very good example of how the world things…it is, "The greatest good for the greatest number"…and that is what is happening now…We HAD to start somewhere…and with a "bully" threatening, mocking and laughing at us and telling us or NOT telling us that he had WMD’s (the whole world I might add)…each and every day, something had to give…he should have been honest and let the inspectors in…He thought we were bluffing…as the whole world was watching us…Bush and Blair were right and Poland was right to side with the "defender’s of freedom"…you are WRONG…but, you are free to go make some more placards, get out in the cold, which I am sure it is cold in Poland now and speak your mind…It is people with your attitude that got Europe in trouble in the first place…and continues to try and get them into trouble…by noncomplacency…in other words, "Let’s bury our heads in the sand, and perhaps if we ignore what is happening, it will all go away"…YOU SHOULD REMEMBER what happened to your ancestors…Perhaps the Polish leadership remembers and they KNOW that this is a global war…the war on terrorism…and that no country or no people are exempt from their evilness…now not even Muslims…as they are being targeted and bombed and killed also…not just the Jews, the Infidels, and everyone else that terrorist hate…they are murderous killers…and they do not believe in the true teachings of the Koran or Quran whichever way…sounds kinda like the Nazi’s…but, of course, you do not know your history…so you wouldn’t know…
Well, what can I say. You don’t know me so you cannot know that I had my history exam as final exam at hischool allong with sth called WOS "Knowledge about society". History in Poland is still one of the most important classes, toghether with polish and maths.I can asure you that I know the history of my country very good. I’m intrested in politic and I know what I was saying.
I don’t find the reason why you offend every one who don’t agree with you. Belive me, it doesn’t put anything in the discution wich is allready very difficoult. I think that it is you who should go outside and calm down not me.
I supported USA in Afganistan but not in Iraq.
The politic of your president is sth like roman " Si vis pacem para bellum" and it realy does not suit our times.
Can you explain me what exactly did you meant saying :" It is people with your attitude that got Europe in trouble in the first place…"? It is hard to reply if the accusation is not specified.
About learning from history. Offcourse we should never forget it but we have to forgive it. And learning from history means drawing a conclusins from it, not fallowing the mistakes of ancestors. I have the fealing that it is not me who fallow it.
Gotcha:
If I offend you by what I said, then perhaps there is too much truth in my statements for you…every hear this one…"Thou doest protest too much"…think about it…
It is people like you who get us into these situations? you do not understand…Your lackadasical, complacent, roll with the punches attitude…that is what I am talking of…like "keep your head in the sand"…be nice…and maybe these evil people will go away and leave me "us" alone…did Nazi’s leave you alone? Perhaps your ancestors should have "seen it coming"…there certainly was plenty of warning…that is why we in America will NEVER be complacent or lackadasical again…we were and we did not see it coming…and it came…once burnt forever shy of the fire…and if you’all want to get your skirts blown up over the fingerprinting business…so be it…or stay at home…but, let me tell you, the first thing something like 911 happens in Poland…WHO YA GONNA CALL…GOASTBUSTERS…I don’t think so, you will call the people with the policies you put down so readily as wrong…the people with the BOMBBUSTERS…
I) If I found truth in your statement I would have told you that. I’m not someone who gets offended by truth but by offending words. I just asked you to treat with respect people with different point of view ( thoesn’t it mean respecting human rights? ).We are both civilized people after all.
II) I think that you mixed up those who are neutral with those against. I think that being neutral means hidding your head in sand. I’m against neutrality.
III) Again, about WWII and my ancestors seeing it comeing. Well, they did. Everyone, whole Europe knew that something was going to happen, just not THIS! It was a bit more complicated political situation that you seem to see it. You should learn sth about the situation in Europe before it all started and maybe it would clear up this thing for you. It wasn’t so black and white… it never is.
IV) About 911, sth like that won’t happen to Poland because such things doesn’t happen in pleaces like Poland. Terrorists attacs superpowers, the empires. Poland is not one of them but our president and prime minister are dying for it. They are trying to play the roll of leaders of a country of world importance.Thats the reason why our soldiers are there. Most of Poles were against our participation in that war, but they didn’t listen to us. They know that we’ll pay them back at next elections. I just hope that their magalomania won’t cost us blowing Warsaw up.
If sth like 911 happen to Poland it will be only our foult, that we didn’t stop our leaders from doing this madness.
ikorrellim:
Gocha is representative of most of the average world opinion. They WERE probably right with regard to Iraq. The devil is in the details as they say. I wish we had given the process more time. Bush et al said we couln’t wait because of the immanent danger. That turned out to be wrong. We should have waited and meanwhile put our military assets combing the hills of Pakistan and Afghanistan for the AlQuida savages. Go wherever AlQuida is – regardless of nation. We screwed up in Iraq and now we have to figure out how best to get out. Unless, of course, it was all out oil in the first place. Or unless we just had "to make a statement" to the mideast Arabs about the might of a riled US. In those cases our leadership should come clean and tell us. Then the voting public can decide how appropriate that policy is. I’m skeptical because I was treated to an unfortunate few years – many years ago – due to the Tonkin Gulf Resolution – which turned out to be based upon lies of our Government. Regards, Donerail
Terrorist Attack the Empires, the Superpowers? I think you need to start reading your newspapers, watching CNN, and going on the Internet and picking up newpapers from other countries…I am pleased to say that I found Al-Jazeera recently in English…
That is why this is a GLOBAL WAR ON TERRORISM…not just superpowers, empires…Terrorist have been picking on the weak for quite some time now…they decided to pick on America…kinda like the Japanese…they thought that by weakening our Fleet and our Morale…we would roll over and play dead…Well, I think the terrorist have a very different opinion of us, just as the Japanese came to see in WWII…
Regardless of my personal thoughts of the invasion of Iraq…what’s done is done…and now we need to normalize the country and get it back on it’s feet…What annoys me…is that it seems that the Middle East seem to love to blow people up, including themselves…the Sunni’s, Shite’s, etc…God knows they sure have enough rivalry’s going on…But if they are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo religious as they claim to be, praying all the time…Do they not believe in, "Thou Shalt Not Kill"…CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN THAT ONE TO ME…Even the Palestinians…they do not seem to want to come to a peaceful solution…WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
Sorry, but Japan IS a country of world importance. An I DO read newspapers.
About religion. Maybe it is hard to imagine but islam itself is peacefull religion. In koran you wouldn’t find such things, even those scarfs muslim weman are made to wear are not islamic but some relict of what was there before. I have two friends from Kazakstan who are muslim. They told us that islam in arabic countries doen’t have much to do with Koran. About holly wars, there is sth like that but hey! isn’t there "eye for an eye" thing in Bible?
I’m not specialist in islam, I have to belive my friends. The truth is that I do not understand this culture that much.
Maybe there is some muslim at our forum who could tell us more about it?
About Iraq, I agree with ikorrellim in one thing. What is done is done. Even if I want to we cannot turn back the time. Now we have to think what to do next and how to bring normality to life of Iraqians. Boycotting eachother realy won’t help anybody.
Gotcha:
Yes, Japan is of world important…thanks to the US and it’s allies…that’s a gotcha…Gotcha…
I have a Muslim friend in Islamabad who explains to me that the terrorist do not follow the Muslim religion which practices peace and kindness…as he explained, as some Christians professed their religion and do not follow it…so Muslims profess but do not follow…and certainly, Allah does not condone what the terrorist are doing…anyway, Gotcha…I am glad that you read the newspapers…Do you live in Japan…I lived in Japan for two years…liked the people…
I cannot believe the drivel that goes on here. All world religions preach peace and good will.
So why does te Government of Israel, with the US support, do the same ungodly things as some arab extremists?
You know to keep talking about details within the big picture only protracts the argument and real issues.
I came to this thread because of the boycott of the French issue; and I want to return to freedom of speech and freewill to make our own decisions even if others don’t like them.
I did support our Prime Minister Blair at the time because I felt he acted with integrity. But I still think that we should treat the French (and Germans etc) with respect and accept that they are fully entitled to take a different position.
If we don’t then the USA does become a dictating super power because everyone then has to do what the people of America want or be isolated.
That would be very bad for democracy in the world.
Oh, yes, and those who still want to boycott french products — please consider how much you are attacking the people of that country whose livlihoods depend upon trade . . . rather than the leaders who took the decisions.
Look, what I said about Great America telling Europe what to do wasn’t an attack on USA, but a respose to your reminding us all the time about what your country did 60 years ago. It is you who seems to forget something.
About Germany and France, Europe is varied pleace and in such pleaces conflicts have to appear. We are not perfact. Such countries, not even thinking about alliances of countries, don’t exist. Those conflicts are something natural in the new situation we all got in too. How we’ll solve it? Time will show. EU is now in a very important moment and missunderstandings are unavoidable. How we’ll solve it? Time will show. We have to wait couple of months and we’ll see.
About the militar help of USA "just in case". There are some voices ( yes I know, from Germany and France) about the need of building european forces. Personaly, I don’t realy know how it should look like to be suitable for everyone’s interests. But, Europe is changeing so again we have to wait. Anyway, I’m cautiously optmistic.
Thank you for your patience ikorrellim.
— The Englishman
I am just so grateful I am not an American and don’t have to stay up through the night to join in such banality.
Here it is lunchtime, the sun shines and it feels good to wind you up.
Christopher O.
Well, do enjoy your lunch…and if you are out in the sunshine enjoying your lunch…why are you on your computer on this site…laptop? What was it…Rome burned while ??? was fiddling? I know you Europeans are very big on your long lunches etc…No, I do not stay up all night to visit this site…I do get up early…while the day is new and fresh…The sun is starting to shine here too…it is now 0900 a.m. (for me) and I am getting ready to drive into the country where I was born to visit with relatives for the weekend…It is quite, peaceful and very serene…and we will talk, eat, laugh, joke, just as you do…However, the subject of our country will come up and we will discuss some of the pros and cons of what is happening now…We are very aware people…who have balanced our work and pleasure in such a way as to keep ahead of you "laid back" Europeans in every way, economically,technologically, etc. Soooooooooooooooooo, go about your business of whatever it is that you do that keeps you living in the past and not able to come into the 21st century…Yes, there has been talk of a military for the EU…but let’s face it…you can’t afford one…France especially…perhaps that is why they choose to "whimp"…As for Englishmen…I am a big fan of your Tony Blair…he must have
some "American" blood in him…he’s got balls…
I will return to this site, when I return from my "Roman Holiday" (pun)…intended…and I will be "Ready and Able, Like the USS FRANK CABLE" to answer any "dribble" that you care to input…
ikorellim: you are becomming very boorish. Donerail
Hi everyone
Im from down under…that wonderful country that helps everyone. Yes Australia..Pity you can’t all hear yourselves, tit for tat me thinks. Golly no wonder the world is in the state it is, especially when seemingly educated people can’t relate. Im not giving up french cheese or wine and those sexy little french undies..well forget it.Just returned from Singapore and packed the old suit case with bottles of duty free FRENCH purfume too. hehehe. Till later..R
Roseylou:
And oh what a refreshing attitude you have…And you are oh so right, the Aussie’s DO help everybody…My original intention on visiting this site was to learn about Europe in a planned visit in the spring…However, my eyes have been opened as to how European’s really feel about us Americans and it is interesting to note that my traveling friends have been visiting the Netherlands, Australia, Switzerland in the past few years…perhaps it is a sign of the times…LONG LIVE THE AUSSIE’S…
Right on Roseylou!! ikorrellim, you will get quite an education on your vacation. You will find Europeans do not dislike Americans but that they distrust American foreign policy. As well they should. Donerail
Yes, exactly. I never said that I hate America or Americans. In my first post on this topic I said that I’m not profrench or antiamerican. The fact that I don’t agree with the politic of your country does not mean that I would treat you with disrespect or sth. Our discution here looks like a quorell sometimes, but hey, we talk about controvetial subject, aren’t we?
I love French produits….. Clarins is super. I would love to have a Renault Clio…I drove a Renault from Avis in Paris…it was Superb.
It got me to Reims, and to Lille…and even all around Sacre Coeur.
I love the Supermarkets in Paris as well. And of course, the Produce I bought down the street on Rue des Abbesses was great Food to have
in my room. And the Cotton Club cafe is a perfect bar with great Hosts and Waiters.
There are lots of great French products…which are items whose companies haven’t moved on to India or China ala American companies.
BTW: I am a California resident, who also went to Singapore recently and had a great time there as I did in Paris and Munich in 2003. I enjoy this Forum and my Favorite writers are:
Fabbrice, Donerail, Gaston and Christopher O….
And Now, if only the US could trade President Chirac for what exists here. And please, take the Calif "interloper Governor" too. I would buy Moet and Dom Perignon if you took these boors off our hands. Merci
ikorellim: I sense that you are being overrun in the same fashion that KingMonkey was. But, you must get a grip. All the b/s that the right wing throws at you is not necessarily true. By the way, Bush did not get the majority of the vote. How Al Gore would have reacted to 9/11 is a moot point. Bush appears to have used 9/11 to rationalize a pre-existing penchant to attack Iraq. Bottom line, why don’t we use our resources to go after Bin Laden. One last obsevation. I was thinking that you were a teenager or in your twenties. If you are as old as me, it is indeed frightening. Regards, Donerail
danairozo: How did you ever gather up the nerve to drive in Paris? From your description, I can see you certainly enjoyed what must be the greatest city in the World. Regards, Donerail
Well.. driving in Paris and out to Reims (that very Forboding Cathedral) was not that hard, Donerail. Los Angeles is bad. San Francisco Bay area is worse. Ag and Central Valley drivers in SUVs are murder in California. If you see a Big 4 door Pickup in Calif. with not even a dirty Shovel in the truck bed, watch out! True, I paid some Tolls on that highway to Reims and Nancy. The towns and Rivers I passed over, were so Famous in History. I admit that I did Not take the Auto Collision Insurance from Avis..or from Budget at Gare Lyon. I also admit that Parking near my hotel room was difficult (I obviously didn’t stay at a Sheraton or Hyatt). On my way back from Reims, almost to the DeGaulle-Lille exit, a Motorcyclist was "mort" in a bad accident ahead.
There was no Shouting for one hour, or Honking by motorists. There was no complaining. I was amazed at how seriously the French took the unfortunate plight of someone else…someone they didn’t know personally…this is why I travel to see other people.
Donerail:
Of course, I forgot, Gore did win the election…and I was angry because Gore was not elected President…but, you know opinions are like a–holes…everybody’s got one…
No I am not a teenager, and if my views "frighten" you, please don’t…The views of KINGMONKEY and CEMENTPROFIT frighten me…
As I explained in another e-mail…someone in one of these threads…sometimes I play the devil’s advocate…sometimes I do not feel as strongly about issues as I lead others to believe…
KINGMONEY and CEMENTPROFIT frighten me because if all of our young people had the same attitude, we would not have a military…or we would have to go back to the draft…which is not good…because there would be so many drafted who are unwilling to give it their best shot…As a matter of fact, some still arn’t and are removed during basic and soon thereafter…I believe they get an honorable discharge (under general conditions)…which will not hurt them later on in the workforce…
My youngest son re=enlisted at sea during this whole mess less than a year ago…my oldest son is "anti-military" and never served…however, when my sister made the remark that "she was surprised that my youngest had re-enlisted because of the way things are now (you know war)…I remarked that he would not shirk his responsibility…that was a "dig" at her because neither of her three sons choose to serve their country…Not their fault…their father took deferrments, etc. until he was passed over…and so, therefore…I understand the oldest wanted to join Coast Guard when he was young, but his father discouraged it…I get so down-hearted when one of our young men or women gets killed…sometimes I cry…for the heartache that it causes the parents and loved ones…and the heartache of knowing that another young life has been snoofed out before they even got a chance to get to live life…There was ONLY one parent so far that actually discreted what his son gave his life for…on TV…in March…the rest (parents) had and have the same attitude that I would have…Proud of their child, standing tall when they receive the flag…etc…One Father here in the South is a preacher…and he wore Red, White and Blue at his 20 year old son’s funeral and delivered the sermon and the eulogy…NOW THAT IS A STRONG MAN…How hard that must have been…Faith in the South is our fallback on good and bad times…and it sees us through a lot of hard times…
I have been in the military, married into the military, worked for the military (only civilian sometimes in a huge group of sailors)…and still work for the government…thus, you will see a lot of "pro-America" in my statements…not to make an excuse…but, as I said, sometimes I play devil’s advocate…
It is my firm belief that America would be better off if we drafted all of our young right out of high school for a two year stint in whichever branch of the service they choose (I believe Isreal does this, or used to…I see where some went to jail for a year not long ago because they refused to fight or go into a war zone)…anyway, the young would get (in a lot of cases) some very needed discipline, they would learn how to take care of themselves…and they would get some very valuable life skills training that would serve them well through their lives…
The military point of view…my own ex-husbands included that with loosing the draft…we would get a lot of "shitty, a–holes…etc…
unintelligent people…etc…Did you know that the Air Force and Navy have a different entrance exam than the Army and the Marines…It is harder to get into the Air Force and the Navy…interesting…but, think about it…
I do believe that this theory has been proven wrong…and it makes me very proud to be an American and have a son who serves his country…
As I explained to you quite some time ago…Southerner’s teach their children…to love and serve, God, family and country…in that order…that is why (not because they are poor and have no choice..in some cases this is very true) I believe at least 50% of the military come from southern states…
I will always believe that I should stand up for my country…someone once said, "My country, right or wrong, but my country"…I realize that we should have stayed out of Iraq…BUT, if we had found WMD’s, the whole world would be praising us right now…however, we are there now and must make the best of the situation…
So, my fellow American…please do not let my statements frighten you…what frightens me is that it seems that so many American’s "shit can"…(sailor talk) their country to others…but they don’t mind reaping the benefits…whatever they might be…
Some of the statements made on this site would have been considered "treason" not too many centuries ago…
MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA AND OUR TROOPS…
I decided to leave this thread alone for a while; I did not want to appear as though I just love the sound of my own voice — ikorrellim try saying what is important in half the words and others may start to understand what you are realy about. And why on earth express a view in any way that does not reflect what you really mean – that is just crass. And if you only want to provoke that is sad.
[You know Hitler came to power on gingoism - everything about Germany was the best, invade territories he wanted to dominate, never wanting to find compromise with neigbours. Interestingly a senior US politican and a long estalished news man from New York were going down this very road on British TV last week in commenting upon your president.]
Now, rather than take this idiotic banter any further about how great the yanks are or what problems the French are, why don’t we return to the issue – boycotting French products and the reason?
We are in the 21st Century; I applaud your statements on freedom – exactly those that are enjoyed and upheld across Europe, Australasia and much of the rest of the world so no propblem there.
So when it comes down to it we are all really in accord. Phew.
I am off to look for a nice property in the Loire valley in September. When I retire (couple of years) my wife and I will have an appartment in London and live between the two. Vive la France!
Christopher O.
Congradulations to you and your wife on your upcoming retirement and your "flat" in London…and your apartment in France…
I will retire in five years…have a condo in Florida (paid for), a home in South Carolina (paid for) and an apartment in California (LB) paid for…So, I can come and go as I please…and plan to travel in this world somewhat…
My oldest son has travelled extensively on his job in Europe and Southeast Asia…He has clued me in…some things are best left unsaid…i.e., economy, living conditions, etc…
I travel extensively on TV…History Channel…They are featuring Hitler this week…and last week I do believe…I also travelled yesterday on the Travel channel all over France…to the wine country, cheese country, all of the major cities…I have also travelled on internet to France…and believe it or not…have some interaction with some frenchmen on e-mail…
My feeling is that I will not waste my US dollars on France…I will go to Germany…my Father was there with Gen. George Patton…I have been to Japan where my uncles were…History has a way of repeating itself…
But if you are happy, then I am happy…and so…there we are…both happy…me here…you there…GOD BLESS AMERICA AND OUR TROOPS…
and Viva la France (ouch that hurt just a little bit)…
Bonjour. Did ChristopherO mention something about "a New Thread"?
I need to learn how to find and follow different avenues here sometimes.
danairozo: Did not understand if your comment was a joke or serious…went right over my arrogant, unitelligent American head…
But, Christopher O: One more thing…Please do not compare America with Hitler…We do not try to conquer the world and keep it for ourselves…We try to "help"…I do believe the English asked for our "help"…thus they are still speaking English, and the French still get to speak French, and the German’s still get to speak German…and the Japanese still get to speak Japanese…Now if we had wanted to conquer the world…we would own almost all of it by now…we tried to help you re-build and spent big bucks of our own money doing so…
However, it did occur to me that the universal language is becoming or has become English…I understand that some of the French are so arrogant about their language that they will not speak English to you even if they are proficient in it…but, on the other hand, I understand in other countries that people will actually run you down on the street asking you if you speak English because they want to practice their English…Interesting turn of events…I might add…
ChristopherO: I envy you and your plans for Loire upon retirement. I would like to do something like that but I wouldn’t know where to begin. Ikorrellim: I do not see so much "pro American" in your rantings as I see "pro Military." It is obscene the amount of money that we pound down the rat hole each year in defense spending. I’m not talking about our Servicemen. They are national treasures but we have too many of them. Whatever Bush/Cheney asks for should be cut by two thirds. Then, maybe, we would have more money to enjoy more French cheese, French wine, French cuisine. And maybe we would have enough so that ex-servicemen like myself could buy a retirement home in Burgundy. Vive La France. Donerail
donerail thanks for your comments – I have a holiday planned for New Orleans and New York in April and I am pleased to be reassured that our American friends will be a pleasure to meet.
Sadly many Brits see Americans as right wing and reactionary. We could do with more balanced debate and interaction – I am sure it would be good for both our nations.
Best wishes.
Oh and by the way ikorrellim it is not true that English is becoming the world language. It is American that is dominating.
Check out languages on Microsoft and you get the choice of English/American or English/International.
Do you realise how insulting that is to a nation where English was formed centuries ago. We speak two languages that just sound the same, sadly.
England is an old culture in a country that forms part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Remember, if we had not triumphed over the French in the battle for North America you would now be speaking a version of French.
The French, by the way, will speak English – sadly it is more often that visitors don’t put effort into their language. If a Frenchman comes to America you will expect him to use your language so why should you not use his in his own home?
ChristopherO: Your observations are right on. There is no reason why we should be so internationally boorish. I’m afraid, however, your insight will go right over ikorellim’s head. The pompous right wing in this country, especially the militaristic South, just will never get it until they get out and interact with the world. I think, however, they will prefer to harvest their tobacco and foist that product on the unsuspecting. Donerail
Now that I am known to be of the female gender…wow, Donerail and Christopher O, don’t our testerone levels get bent out of shape…Don’t like sparing with a "girl"…
Sorry ikorrellim where did gender come into this?
Good point, ChristopherO. Ikorrellim: Your previous comment reminds me of an old Southern proverb: "Never wrestle with a pig. You both get all dirty. And the pig likes it." Regards, Donerail
ikorrellim states in her first post here about France, "..they seem to be very self-centered and only look out for themselves.." however isn’t that how americans are? what with their gas guzzling SUV, their emphasis on making money? "The American Dream" isn’t about freedom, it’s about getting RICH.
She also states that French are so arrogant that they won’t speak English even if they are proficent in it. Why should they speak English ??? If you go to a foreign country, shouldn’t you at least TRY to speak the native language there? It’s American ARROGANCE to presume that the entire world should speak English! It’s this kind of arrogance and self-righteousness and air of (supposed) superiority that makes the entire world hate Americans.
LaVielleBranche: Please be gentle with us. Ikorrellim does not speak for all of us. Unfortunately, she does speak for the majority of US citizens – at this time. Eventually, knowledge and education will prevail. Hopefully this will not take long. Donerail
maxpower, you are starting to sound like ikorrellim sadly.
Let me add mine to the French response you’ve had.
I am English and you might think, if you lived over here, that I would be biased in your favour because of our traditional rivalry with the French … but the humour you cannot find is probably because the humour of the French is so subtle and it may be that it goes over your head. My French aquaintances are good fun so no contest I am afraid.
You’ve beed answered about the wine but I have to add that the choice in France is so vast I cannot understand why it would matter that you could not find an Alsace bottle in another region.
As for wanting Mexican food well that’s a pretty poor criticism alongside the wealth of fine cuisine available.
Finally go through French history and you will find richness and culture that you could probably not imagine. They have a literary heritage that you probably could not understand. And they have a language that probably leaves you speechless.
It’s really so easy to be a cheap critic but I hope no one is taking you seriously … I only hope that with your sense of humour you are not taking yourself seriously either.
Christopher, Of course the french have a sense of humor, it just don’t
come out very often. The French are very serious and complex people.
They LOVE to argue and debate politics and the like. They are not violent though, I have never had a Frenchman accuse me of trying to start WW111, as you seem to be preoccupied with. I have had many a French joke translated to me and they just are not funny. This well
could be a languge thing. Now you English, theres some people with a sense of humor. I will tell you a joke an English man once told me
In heaven all the cooks are french, the engineers are german, the lovers are italian, the police are english and its all organized by the swiss. In hell all the cooks are english, the
engineers are french , the lovers are swiss, the police are german and its all organized by the italians.
sorry if you have already heard!
maxpower and ChristopherO: Thank you for those posts. It is nice to see some original, well thought out comments. Take care of the Forum and when I return from LaFrance in two weeks I will try to relate anything relevant that I may have experienced. Donerail
christopherO:
how wonderfully eloquent that was! i wish everybody here could see what you see
Some observations on French products after just having come back from La France. Cars. I rented a Peugeout 307 which was a five speed diesel. It was a wonderful car with features like automatic windshield wipers (not too prevalent here) and the lights would come on when entering tunnels or using the windshield wipers. Highways: Line paintings to show you the interval to keep from other cars. Signage that always (well, most of the time) made sense. Toilets: Two speeds for the obvious reasons. Parking via "postage type" devices instead of ugly parking meters. And the list could go on for a long time. Donerail
+this forum may be nice, and cheeky and maybe indirect…..as indirect as SalB’s L Train to the Gentilly top…which is really
the Cite Univeristy…. founded by Pasteur and subsidized by
the fears of Danny the Red in Paris, In Place du Concorde,
In haiti
In Tulare County California
IN Hawaii by Mr. Inoyue and in the Senate by poor Mrs. Snowe.
I am truly ashamed of My county today, and apologize for most of them….and more than Half of them in Fresno Country California…
Yes I am lucky to see the SalB scanner on the back of a United 777,
and yes I am lucky to get Reagan Scholarships or Pelt grants at
STandford, Berkeley or MarioSavio College of Hard Knocks allocated NOT by Marie Curie or the Aristocratic bread maker in MSO.
Thank heaven for Seven Eleven in Chicago…near the MRT, Near L
Near lights passed on everywhere when the Moon is Niente de Speciale
Saturn or Peugeut 407 in Bleu….. there’s more class in my aunt evelyn’s little Finger than in all the Tea in…….. in……
uhhhh…. Sri Lanka?…..
There is a site in the US that sells all kinds of French products for the home ranging from toothbrushes and toothpaste to children’s clothes and laundry detergent. The web address is http://basicfrenchonline.com/ It is an excellent resource for genuine everyday products. I believe they also ship to the UK.
And for French food products, I have also purchased from an excellent website in Connecticut http://www.splendidpalate.com/
I buy Made in France when I can in opposition to the American war in Iraq.
LaVieilleBranche: You are right about us not knowing what people endured during WWII. Having been in the service during time of war, I can relate to "stuff happening." You are fearful of losing your life, you are incredibly tired, you have long since lost a state of normalness, you lose friends, and "things happen." This is why we should never send our precious sons (and daughters) to war unless there is absolutely no other alternative. This does not excuse what happened to your relatives. But at the same time, I cannot condemn the GI’s for they were forced to endure things that the average person cannot fathom. War sucks. Donerail
Actual participation by soldiers in War or "police actions" etc., is very interesting. I searched for a version of "La Marseillaise" that I could share with a older gentleman who is at Mall Walking. Jim, 89, finds the song very invigorating.
The version I listened to here by Mirielle Mathieu (in French) is super. And the English version of the song as written, shows a sentiment about unavoidable war. I didn’t see which war this song was written during, but it shows how "unhospitable dominant people" can be viewed. Beatable or not.
donerail: war sux for everyone involved…nobody should ever go to war for any reason…there are other ways to deal with things then blowing people up..as for my family, those GIs in the photo looked very content and well fed…and my cousins had quite a bit to say about them…
but do they hate americans now? of course not! they know that improper behavior was committed by those INDIVIDUALS, not the entire american army…they dont hate germans either, because life moves on and they made peace with germany a long time ago..they dont hate the grandchildren for the sins of their ancestors…alsace is right on the german border, on the french side of the Rhine river, so they should know well…
danairozo: do you need a written copy of "La Marseillaise?" i have a french revolutionary war songs book with all the verses of the anthem in it.. i can find it, scan it and put it on my web site and you can download it…
you like Mirielle Mathieu? i don’t…she artifically rolls her rrrrrr when she sings which isn’t french at all…maybe you could find a copy of edith piaf singing it..would be more authentic..:-)
Well, thank you, LaVielleBranche, but I went to LaMarseillaise.org and I printed out the French and English versions of that song…I gave them to Jim at the Mall yesterday morning. I wrote down the name "Edith Piaf" and will look into that later. Yes, Mirielle’s enthusiastic version with the "rolling of the r’s" was very fine..but, I you are right about the usage of the rolling r’s there in Paris."
danairozo, I would very much like to get a copy of LaMarseilles also but when I put lamarseilles.org into my browser I am told that I am not in the redirect database – should I take another route to get to this – would very much appreciate your help.
Christopher, I believe this should work: http://old.marseillaise.org/francais/audio…..then click on Fichiers Sonores…then it takes about 15 minutes to download the Song by Mirielle…I briefly looked into Edith Piaf.. She had great albums in the 40s and 50s it seems. There are sample songs to hear, but I couldn’t find on with her singing, "La Marseillaise"…Possibly I would have to buy the Gold Collection.
danairozo thank you very much for the link – very helpful in my understanding of the patriotic hymn. I searched my Piaf collection but, sadly, no version of La Marseillaise otherwise I would gladly have sent you a copy. Best wishes.
christopherO: i went on kazzaa and strangely enough no piaf singing "La Marseillaise." they have the anthem labeled piaf but it is actually a different french singer..
now i’m curious to find a copy piaf and the anthem, if it exists!
It must have been quite something for those GIs to see a Frenchman
(or German, as Alsace was part of Germany in 1944) with a camara.
Strange that if they were so nasty,they did not take the camara?
maxpower: alsace was NOT a part of germany in 1944. France took alsace BACK after world war 1, in which germany LOST…alsace was always its own independant territory, with its own language, between france and germany, but its people associated themselves with france, not germany…Louis XIV called Alsace a "beautiful garden" when he toured and controlled the region, because of its pretty towns, delicious vinyards and farms….germany coveted alsace/lorraine because of its abundant natural resources, such as coal….
maxpower, you’re american right? showing everyone in the forum your wonderful american command of history?
danairozo: i’ll be in paris soon, while there i’ll look around at FNAC or at mouffetard to see if i can find a copy of Piaf singing the french national anthem. If i find a copy, i’ll rip it and email it to you.
When I return from the USA early May I shall be off to Tours and Angers so perhaps I can join the hunt – sounds a fun and potentially rewarding thing to do.
I am so pleased that what started as a knock French products thread has spawned such a good spirit. It goes to show how much can be gained by having an open mind and talking!
Vive l’entente cordiale.
You must be French? I can tell by your denial. Alsace was never under German control, it was controled by the "resistance" wasn’t it?
How did the Germans manage to deport all of its jews and draft ethnic Germans. Try reading "The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer. He was one
of those ethnic germans. Have you ever heard of the Alsatian Twelve?
That was one trial the French would rather forget, but quite revealing.Also rember that French civilians in any part of france did not always see the allies as liberators, many prefered the Germans.
Allied commanders knew this and comat troops where told to expect only 40% cooperation from french civilians.
ChristopherO: nice to see somebody here with an open mind and open spirit
i never boycotted french products, by the way, i went out of my way to buy FRENCH all this time
maxpower: alsace is FRENCH, was ALWAYS FRENCH and always will be FRENCH…do you even KNOW any alsacians? do you know how many of them left alsace/lorraine area in the years right before ww1 because they HATED the germans?? my family was one of them, you idiot! do you know how many MILLIONS of AMERICANS can trace their ancestry to alsace/lorraine area BECAUSE of the germans?
How did POLAND deport its jews? they were taken over by GERMANY!
you say that many french didn’t see the allies as liberators…no kidding! just ask my family in Bischwiller! the ones who had to give "hospitality" to those wonderful "liberators." thank you for proving my point
..as the song says…."how ya gonna keep them back on the farm, after they’ve seen paree..(ww1 song)"
LaVieilleBranche/maxpower: The problem that has to be remembered is that France was located between the Nazis and the Allies. It was also occupied by the Nazis. I have sympathy for the French as they had to endure the savage oppression of the Nazis. If I was the average Frenchman (or Pole, or Dutch, or etc), I would not want to be bombed or shot at by anyone – Nazis or Allies. With regard to our troops, however, the goal was to defeat Germany unconditionally and there was a lot of French territory between the Allies and Germany. Bad things happen in war. (A lot of people believe that if France and England were not so punitive towards Germany after WWI, maybe Hitler would not have made it to the top. In any event, he did and the rest is history.) It is tragic that when politicians fail so many innocent people end up getting hurt. Instead of being intolerant towards ethnic groups, people should be intolerant of incompetent politicians. Like the George Bushes. Donerail
I beg to differ, France is not even France anymore, its E.U.
Get with the times! By the way, thank YOU for proving my point,
that the FRENCH prefered the German NAZIs occupation over the Allies.
I guess many French could identify with all that racial quackery and
Jew hating stuff. Do not fret! It is my belief that the future name of the E.U. will be the Fourth Reich. The Germans are just waiting for the right man.
maxpower: Welcome to Plant Earth. You are one sick puppy. To even think that the average Frenchman preferred the Nazi occupation is an outrage. When you have savages in the tent, you have to cope in any way possible to survive. If you are an American, you are an embarrassment. Donerail
Donerail, say what you want about me, but please do not insult the french people like that. You charcterize them all as collaberationists
Have you ever heard of Jean Moulin? He was a resistance member who
certianly would not "cope in any way" when faced with true evil.
There truly where many more like him that would be appaulled at your
statment. I said that 60% collaberated, I did NOT say I agreed with
them, as you apperantly do. In one of your posts you summerize WWII
by stating Allied forces had to "go thru" France to get to Germany,
but you stop short of saying they liberated the French. I call that an
insult to all Allied soldiers. Whether it was their main intent or not
they DID liberate the French. Thousand of Americans, British,Poles,
Candians and French died on the Western front yes to defeat Hitler,
but there was a little by-product called LIBERTY for all in their
path.
For Tammy, I do not subscribe to any boycott, its foolish to not buy
French or go out of your way to buy French. Between France and usa,
we should all just buy what what suits our needs best.
Erm . . maxpower, why is it that whenever I enter this thread it seems that there is an American that knows everything about France and WW3 and seems to want to make it such a highly charged issue?
I was born during WW2 and lived with the aftermath having had neighbours bombed and lives destroyed in my own country – in England. I lived very close to London.
I dread to think what the French went through and would rather not keep raking up misguided history.
There is plenty I could say about GIs in the UK but it is not all bad or all good.
How very saddened I am that, in what should be an enlightend age, we can still virtually start WW3 on the internet.
Despite all my knowledge it is still very little in the mix of a major international conflict the like of which has never been seen since.
I could not presume to lecture to a Frenchman whose family lived through the horror; and I also feel very sorry for the millions of Germans in whose name the atrocity was committed.
Shame that we cannot listen to another man’s story and not try to understand, rather than try to correct him.
Why do we not, instead, ask him questions and try to learn more from his perepective? Or do we presume to be experts and want to shout down all those with a different position.
Shame on those who condemn but never had the first hand experiences to truly appreciete what was really going on.
ChistopherO: Thank you for inserting some sanity into the conversation. I wish I had the diplomatic skills that you possess.
Maxpower: You read a lot more into my post than what I wrote. I stated that oppressed people have to cope in any way possible with their oppressor. How you interpret that to mean that I stated that the French people were collaborationists with the Nazis is amazing to me. That truly would be an insult to the French and I would never do that. The fact that the Europeans are becomming economically and socially united is beneficial to the whole world. The fact that France is a leader in that regard is a tribute to the French. Donerail
maxpower: since all you seem to care about are the jews, why don’t you take your comments into an israeli/zionist forum? they might be more welcome there….
maxpower: almost EVERY family in france had a family member in the french resistance…every family had a cousin, aunt, uncle, father, sister, brother, etc who was in the resistance…and who probably DIED as a result of it…
when the allies got to paris, the germans had already packed up and left…you know why? the french resistance! the resistance had driven the germans OUT of paris before the aliies arrived.
were the french happy to see allies? sure! look at the old movie footage of french women kissing american men! but things went SOUR right after that when american men started treating parisiennes like whores and thought of paris as some playground instead of what it was..a starving city, with the population already having endured years of devrivation and hunger. YOU live on only rutebagas for a few years and see how YOU like it.
the germans were TERRIBLE to resistance members they caught. they had built an underground bunker in the old french mining tunnels (13th arrond, i think) and that was where they kept resistance fighters. That is where the resistance fighters were tortured by the german army before they were killed.
resistance members had their meetings in the catacombs, where the underground cemetaries were. the germans were too superstitious to enter the area where the bones lay!
it is unfortunate that american history books barely mention this in the chapters on ww2. if more americans saw BOTH sides of what happened, maybe we all could learn to understand each other and get along. I have a friend who was a child in GERMANY during ww2 and what she described during wartime was absolutely terrible. it’s too bad we dont hear more of these other sides, of what happened to others during the war.
There is more to history than the ALLIES. france and germany made peace years ago, it’s time for america to do the same.
donerail: you need to go into the catacombs..the entrance is at place denfert-rochereau in the 13th arrondissement. (metro denfert-rochereau) check your tour book to see when they’re open. last i heard they’re only open 2 hours in the afternoon. You can see piles of bones laid out in an eerie artwork design. and YES, you can take photos down there…dress in old jeans, sneakers…no designer duds down THERE.
if you need more info on it, send me an email!
I too have been to the catacombs. I recommend it to anyone who gos to Paris. Those narrow spiral stair cases seem to go on forever.
La Vieille Branche, whats the matter do you find the issue of French anti-semetism uncomfortable? And what about those million of Alsatians you state fled France, did they have that little faith in the French governments ability to protect them that they had to go to
barbaric America? I thought the French never leave France.
I agree all counties have good things and bad things, but to most people on this forum, France has all the good, America all the bad.
Unfortunatly, from my personel experiances with the French this type
of jingoistic, simplistic nationalism has been going on far longer then the Iraq thing. French people seem to sweep any bad news about France under the rug. Young people today don’t even know about
French follies in Vietnam and Algeria. The French should follow
the German example and confront their mistakes and deal with them openly.
For Christopher,who said anything about WWIII? Do not presume to know my suffering! Remeber, I live in barbaic, gun toting America!
As a final thought, I am glad you all seem to be over the whole name calling thing!
maxpower: I was expecting something more eloquent from you. The more I learn about French culture, the more facinated I am with it. France has had some awkward moments, to tb sure, but overall I am impressed with it. Gun toting America is an interesting image that we present to the world, isn’t it? Its not too far off the mark either. But back to French/American products: why is it that European quality standards are higher than ours? (As in automotive standards, e.g.) Why do they have better food? Why do they waste less and pollute less? Why is their crime rates lower? Why are their education standards higher? Having asked all that, I wonder why our movies and music and spirit of invention and innovation are so much better than the Europeans? I think SalB has me behaving myself too much. Donerail
danairozo: Looks like the medication is kicking in. Donerail
danairozo, You’re either on something or you’ve been reading too much Tom Robbins.
danairozo: You were quite lucid when talking about Chicago on that other thread. Maybe you were medicated while on here…
Donerail
hehe….Donerail and SalB:.. I just saw what I typed a number of days ago in that thread… very sorry, I am not sure what was on my mind at the time. I have been in a daze for about three weeks… very intolerant or very not-caring about some things. Yes, I do take some meds…that which
I can still afford. I have been planning a trip to Hong Kong and north half of the Philippines. I finally got it all done and paid for, using United Airlines chiefly and not just what Orbitz or Expedia gives me.
I will reread my bizarre diatribe, then delete it…
naaaah save these old posts for the record. We need something funny to read when nobody else writes !
So, are you going to HK and the Philippines to get reloaded with those *meds* of yours ?? Wow that should be one helluva … trip !
CRC
Bonjour, CRC… no I won’t pick up meds or stuff like that in Iloilo and Guimara..Maybe will ship back some fruit or something. The Meds in Singapore or Philippines and Hong Kong or Paris or Munich are the sights! and what sights and colors and lights and a big lack of "who really cares if the USA is superior to us etc." Paris and Munich and Singapore have so much pretty people (yes I mean ladies…CRC you are male? "lol Can we talk"…lol). But I do love the structure of buildings and all, too.
crc95: Wow. I sense that you are about to "get lucky" as us Harley folks are fond of saying. Donerail
crc has ran away to a galaxy far far away and is not available at the moment. Please leave a message.
crc95: Don’t let me interrupt anything. Donerail
crc is on meds too?????
sometimes I think y’all are on meds! myself excluded…I don’t take anything…I’m perfect
Speaking of which, I had a date Tue. evening and we both had a nice Kir before dinner. So, I couldn’t help have a thought for that Kir-fan forum
CRC
crc95: That wouldn’t have been danairozo by any chance? Donerail
Donerail … that’s not nice of you … I thought you and I had a deal : you don’t talk about my relationship with danairozo, and I don’t say a word that could disclose your passionate, head-over-heels, steamy even, romance with Amero-franc.
But apparently you decided to not hold on to our secret agreement and now I’m very disappointed with you.
CRC
Relationship? hehe…I would like to trade a few of them for One nice
Parisian type one. Wow, what fine relationships having
coffee each morning in the Gare Est… oh well… I guess it’s
back to the drawing bored….lol… (way to go Donerail).
I’ll willingly admit to being in the kir-fan forum! We’ve even found Vedrenne Cassis in LA. That’s not easy to do here.
Somehow it tastes better in France though. Must be the ambience.
Donerail : you made yourself a new friend … congrats
CRC
crc95: I hope amero-franc doesn’t find out. Donerail
Tammy, on the assumption that your question is in order to boycott French products, I can comment that such attitudes are very immature.
Of course you have the freedom to select which products you wish to purchase and which you do not. However, to select which products you wish to purchase on the basis of a nation agreeing or disagreeing with your nation is pretty unbelievable. Fortunately the French (and Europeans) are somewhat more mature in their attitudes and there has been virtually none of this "boycott" talk in Europe. I find it surprising when one hears such attitudes from (presumably) an American citizen to find others asking "where/why is there a rift". This question actually (in part) answers the other questions.
France felt war was not necessary at the time Mr Bush wanted to start one. It said so. It was subsequently proved right. It was subsequently proved that evidence the US and UK presented to the UN was flawed. France (Germany and Russia) has been proved correct in their attitude.
If America wants to be a great nation it needs to start behaving like one and not like a bunch of spoilt children who cannot tolerate different opinions. I appreciate that this is a very sweeping statement and clearly does not apply to all Americans. However, those it does apply to are somewhat vocal and are presenting quite an image to the rest of the world.
A country needs to win the admiration and respect of other countries rather than to try to force it through aggression and military capability. The current attitudes America is presenting to the world are not doing it any favours.
It is worth noting that, had the French, German and Russian politicians been listened to, many people would not have been needlessly killed (including many American soldiers).
It is also worth noting that when talking about veto?s and ignoring Security Council resolutions in the UN:
1. the country that has used it power of veto most often: US (followed by the UK)
2. the country that has ignored most UN Security Council Resolutions: Israel
It’s interesting. Tammy (whoever she is) posted this question in September of 2003. There have been 137 replies, most against the war in Iraq and against boycotting French products. There have been dissenters but the majority who have remained in the forum aren’t interested in rifts or boycotts. We’re here because we’re Francophiles.
It might be easier if the Moderator posted the question as a permanent fixture followed by the LAST posts at the top. That way new forum members could see which way the wind is blowing rather than reply to a question whose time has come and gone.
Also, is there a time for a question to die a natural death? Obviously if no one replies, it disappears but on this forum people like to get into personal mudslinging fights and drag these things on forever. The fact that the default is the "oldest" post at the top doesn’t help because new people have no idea what is currently happening on a particular question . . . in this case, nothing intelligent!
At any rate, it is delightful to see someone who writes well, speaks excellent English and takes the trouble to discuss the subject rather than attack the posters. Welcome JS and do join us.
AuntB, I mean SalB. Excuse me for a moment as I have to ask crc95 a question that is only casually related to French products.
crc95: That was quite a performance by the French bomb/explosives/police and Air France a couple of days ago. Do they have an encore? Donerail
Donerail : no comment !
CRC
donerail: Unless you’be been on a plane that is a bomb target, and experienced the searches, bomb dogs, etc. don’t make light of the situation. I underwent this last December 26 on my Air France flight to Paris from Newark Airport.
Although a week in Paris at Christmas was worth the travel troubles
Wanna see the online photos?
LVB: It is hard not to make light of the security situation. Airport security is a joke. Even more of a joke at CDG. Its almost like we have kfouler5 defending us. Donerail
I think the security at CDG is terrific. They’ve been watchful enough to pull me out, wand me and do a pat down every time I’ve gone through the place. Obviously, they know the next terrorist will be a 60 something white haired little old lady in Birkenstocks!!!!!!!!!!!
Who could argue with that?
SalB: I must lead a boring life. All we have been subjected to is the question: "Did anyone else pack your bags." Other than the metal detector, that was it for security at CDG for the last two trips. Donerail
Us, in France we are not agry with the usa, but we don’t make such things like boycotting them !!? I thouhgt that USA were defending liberty ? For USA is liberty just acceptable when you is agry with them ? Where is democracy in that attitude ?
Hello,
This is indeed a peach preserve, possibly it does have alcohol though. The Peche de Vigne is the sweetest most delicate type of peach, and Sanguine means that it’s read. You’re in for a treat. After tasting let us know if this is not the finest most scrumptious peach you’ve ever tasted!
G
Tammy – "Would someone please post a comprehensive list of products sold in America that you know are French products? Of course, I know about French wine, but I know there are lots more things imported from France that aren’t as clearly labelled. Thank you."
Hello, I am an American living in France and first thing to say is I have never been in a forum but I after reading a few comments here I had to say something about this US/France/war conflict.
I assume you wanted a list of all French products so that you can boycott them, right? "Gaston", "AmericanArmyBrat" and "Fabbrice" are correct. It is virtually impossible. Well are you aware that there are alot, I mean ALOT of products and companies that you may think are American are in fact French or from another country? I respect your "American duty" to boycott the French based on your anger or hostility towards the French government. But first educate yourself on the whole global situation and not what you here from the American media alone. And if you still hate the French, that of course is your right.
And since you obviously have access to the internet, you can look at the global situation from a more "international" viewpoint and not just what you may hear or read in the American media. Read it all and then have an opinion. In all honesty I have lost my faith and opinion on this international situation because our voice will not be heard and Bush will do as he pleases. I do not dislike him nor the French but whatever we say, it will not change whatever is to come. We citizens are the weakest voice to be heard.
But anyhow, thank you for listening. And because I repect your decision to boycott French items, here is a very, very small of an infinite list of French companies/products all sold in the US for you to boycott http://www.metrospy.com/boycott_consumer.htm
and not on the list:
California Wines Napa Valley – (because the French gave a vine to be put in thier vinyards for harvesting so in reality you are drinking "French Wines"
The famous "French Fries" – are actually from Belgium so change to "Belgian Fries" if it makes you feel more comfortable
Mrs. Liberty – designed by Gustav Eiffel (yes he made the Eiffel Tower too) well we might as well blow it up because the French gave it to us as well
Esprit – clothing company
Origins – L’Oreal ownes a percentage of this company
Maille – mustard condiment
Le President – dairy and cheese products
LU – cookies and crackers
Lexxus Motor Co. – owns a % of Nissan and Renault owns a % of Nissan
DSC Communications Corp – telecommunications company bought by Alcatel a French telecomm.
Grand Marnier – orange liquor
Chammbord – raspberry liquor
Calgon Corp – bought by Suez
Culligan Water – Vivendi Environment. Vivendi entered the U.S. market in 1999 with a $7.9 billion takeover of USFilter. USFilter of Palm Desert, Calif., delivers water to about 13 million people in 600 communities. Suez paid $1 billion for United Water Resources of Harrington Park, N.J., which provides water service to about 12.5 million people. (taken from the IGWA – Idaho Ground Water Association.
I am sure there alot more products owned by the French that we do not even know about. But take my advice, it really does not make any sense to boycott because in accuality you will also boycott American items too.
I am an American and very proud of it…I really think that the French should be ashamed of themselves…we have sacrificed so much for Viva La France and what have they sacrificed for us…I am afraid that I do not think that the French are very patriotic for their own country or anything else…they seem to be very self-centered and only look out for themselves…Of course, with the 40 year Normandy Invasion (where we lost a lot for the French) they will advertise and want out tourism…Some of us will be there…not for France and to put money in their pockets, but for our heros who shed their blood and died on French soil to liberate the French…
If some country threatened France right now…where would they run? of course to America..but it is OK…I have heard the story about your Charles de Gaulle…getting on a truck for the "victory parade"…a car backfired and he hit the floor board for cover…
I am afraid that the American’s have every right in this world to boycott France and it’s products…and I also heard a very disturbing statement…I cannot quote the author…but it could have been De Gaulle saying, "We don’t want the war in Viet Nam to end", "we’re making 1 million dollars a day"…Is this not one of the reasons for the resistance to America going into Iraq…the money that Iraq owes France…and also, the money that they now feel that they will not get because America will not give them the contracts? For shame…France…for shame…
I just returned home from Paris where I bought a jar of what I thought were peach preserves .. the label says ‘peche de vigne sanguine’. Can anyone tell me what this is?
You have heard or read very strange story about de Gaulle
In 1944, De Gaulle did not get on or under a truck. Eisenhower had sent the Free French forward to help the French police to fight the Germans. There was no need to borrow an American tank (I have read that version too) or truck, as the Free French Division had been fully equipped as a part of the Allied army. There was a heap of 40 ded Germans in the little street where I later lived, near Sèvres.
There was some real fire from snipers from roofs and balconies. The crowd was huge and if de Gaulle had been ducking, it would have been broadly commented by his many ennemies. If I remember, he entered the cathedral to attend a Te Deum mass.
During the Vietnam war, De Gaulle asked the American gouvernment not to extent the war to other countries like Cambodia, and suggested that an early peace would be welcome. As for making money, the French had just got out of that country with a war which costed them twice the amount of money received from the USA to help rebuilding their own country, which had been destroyed by …. guess who. So I just do not see how France would have benefited . You are confused perhaps with WW1 and WWW2 when the USA sat watching the war for several years and made a fantastic amount of money by selling materal first to both sides, then, later, only to the side they choosed to bet on.